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he had joined the african national congress, the anc, way back in 1944. the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid in south africa had been organized as nonviolent movements, nonviolent resistance, and nonviolent organizing. but after sharpville, they decided that maybe that wasn't enough. after sharpville, they decided they would form a paramilitary wing, and nelson mandela was one of the anc leader who is went underground to help start it. they said they would target government buildings and strategic infrastructure and they would try to sabotage the state. after sharpville, the government of south africa started mass arrests of anc leaders and other activists. they banned the anc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandela was arrested for treason in 1961, he was acquitted and he was convicted of traveling illegally. they sentenced him to five years hard labor on south africa's version of alcatraz, which is robin island. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison, they put him on
he had joined the african national congress, the anc, way back in 1944. the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid in south africa had been organized as nonviolent movements, nonviolent resistance, and nonviolent organizing. but after sharpville, they decided that maybe that wasn't enough. after sharpville, they decided they would form a paramilitary wing, and nelson mandela was one of the anc leader who is went underground to help start it. they said they would target...
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he legalized the anc. and in february of 1990 he visited then 71 year old nelson mandela, still imprisoned 2 y7 r years later. and on february 11, 1990, nelson mandela emerged. >> i now announce to you the great mandela who has been in prison for 27 years. >> nelson mandela speaks after 27 years. >> fellow south africans, i greet you all in the name of peace. democracy and freedom for all. i stand here before you not as a prophet, but as a humble servant of you, the people. >> after 27 years in prison when nel some mandela was released he led the negotiations for the anc for the end of apartheid and apartheid was dismantled. and on the 27th of april, 1994 he was elected the new president of south africa in the first election ever held in that country where all adult citizens were welcome to vote regardless of race. millions of people waited in line to vote, in voting that took three days. and april 27 is now a national holiday in south africa. it's called freedom day. and when it came time to sign the new
he legalized the anc. and in february of 1990 he visited then 71 year old nelson mandela, still imprisoned 2 y7 r years later. and on february 11, 1990, nelson mandela emerged. >> i now announce to you the great mandela who has been in prison for 27 years. >> nelson mandela speaks after 27 years. >> fellow south africans, i greet you all in the name of peace. democracy and freedom for all. i stand here before you not as a prophet, but as a humble servant of you, the people....
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i mean, my god, the denunciations of the anc at the time. it was as though these people were, you know, were like, you know, the cultural revolution in china. it was just this sort of unthinkable thing that was sweeping down on an allied government. and then you look at them now. it's fine. it worked out just fine. >> right. and the remarkable thing is that reconciliation that happens, and the forging of this kind of multiracial national identity that mandela is now being praised for, that only came after this epic struggle. maxine waters who was an absolute vanguard in that fight and thomas frank from harper's, thank you so much. >> you're so welcome. >>> when we come back, another installment of our bizarro congress series. stick around for that. is it africa? the middle east? canada? or the u.s.? the answer is... the u.s. ♪ most of america's energy comes from right here at home. take the energy quiz. energy lives here. [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup
i mean, my god, the denunciations of the anc at the time. it was as though these people were, you know, were like, you know, the cultural revolution in china. it was just this sort of unthinkable thing that was sweeping down on an allied government. and then you look at them now. it's fine. it worked out just fine. >> right. and the remarkable thing is that reconciliation that happens, and the forging of this kind of multiracial national identity that mandela is now being praised for,...
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the rest of the anc, we think they are terrorists. it wasn't until 2008 that congress passed and president george w. bush, not his father, it wasn't until five years ago the u.s. government got around to signing legislation that he didn't need a waiver t.anc that governs south africa and has done so for two decades the designation of the anc as a terrorist group by the united states is a reminder sometimes our government, our political leaders, sometimes they get important things wrong. they get hugely important things very wrong. our country from the president to the mr. president, every day citizens right now our country is mourning the loss of mandela, remembering the life he lived the way he changed the world. our country in the western world wasn't always this united in viewing mandela as a hero. a part tied, apartness in the africano language, they were voted into office in south africa in then 48. they set about passing a series of impressive laws of racial segregation. they western considered citizens. in 1960 when drarts went
the rest of the anc, we think they are terrorists. it wasn't until 2008 that congress passed and president george w. bush, not his father, it wasn't until five years ago the u.s. government got around to signing legislation that he didn't need a waiver t.anc that governs south africa and has done so for two decades the designation of the anc as a terrorist group by the united states is a reminder sometimes our government, our political leaders, sometimes they get important things wrong. they...
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let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you your raft to get out, you don't call them a rafter, you call yourself the one that's trying to stop from drowning. those are the ones that threw the raft in south africa for freedom fighters. >> i think you have to put the african national liberation movements in the global context of the struggle against communism. as the reverend said, they were supported by the soviet union, they were funded by the soviet union, th
let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side....
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let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you your raft to get out, you don't call them a rafter, you call yourself the one that's trying to stop from drowning. those are the ones that threw the raft in south africa for freedom fighters. >> i think you have to put the african national liberation movements in the global context of the struggle against communism. as the reverend said, they were supported by the soviet union, they were funded by the soviet union, th
let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side....
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a terrorist group, from margaret thatcher considered the anc a terrorist group and nelson mandela a terrorist. and this is the '80s. there was a lot of resistance to the idea of the government should fall, much less that this die vestment should take place at all. >> this was in the context of the cold war. and one of the most insidious things that the apartheid south african government did was they couched their oppression in terms of the communist struggle, that essentially the anc was riddled through with communists and pro-cubans. when nelson mandela was freed and made this tour. when he got to miami, he was actually rejected by the local government in miami, two mayors of miami and miami dade would not receive mandela because he was perceived as being pro-castro. so there was this whole sort of cold war fight that was tied up in the south african struggle. and it was part of the reason that the reagan administration opposed the idea of sanctions and divestment from south africa. >> please stay with us. >>> coming up, we will look at the presidency of nelson mandela and how he m
a terrorist group, from margaret thatcher considered the anc a terrorist group and nelson mandela a terrorist. and this is the '80s. there was a lot of resistance to the idea of the government should fall, much less that this die vestment should take place at all. >> this was in the context of the cold war. and one of the most insidious things that the apartheid south african government did was they couched their oppression in terms of the communist struggle, that essentially the anc was...
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mandela was founder of anc, african national congress, others south african national union. i was used to those men and a few women shouting and screaming at each other. they were really arch rivals. when mr. mandela came, he didn't raise his voice. he didn't argue with anybody. he didn't put anybody down. they were rivals. i had never met a south african who wasn't shouting and really angry all the time. i know he was angry, but he didn't use his energy foolishly. so it was a year after that he was imprisoned. i became friends with his wife then, winnie mandela. and we continued to support each other over the years and over the oceans. and she would tell me how he was. he wasn't vitt uperative with t guards. i was part of hillary clinton's delegates when he was inaugurated. i sat there and watched the guards, who had guarded him for 27 years, sitting in the right sights, in the best seats, invited by mr. mandela. not to say look how you treated me. i'm free now and i can ya ya ya at you, not that at all. in fact, he was gracious, welcome. he said, this is south africa. this
mandela was founder of anc, african national congress, others south african national union. i was used to those men and a few women shouting and screaming at each other. they were really arch rivals. when mr. mandela came, he didn't raise his voice. he didn't argue with anybody. he didn't put anybody down. they were rivals. i had never met a south african who wasn't shouting and really angry all the time. i know he was angry, but he didn't use his energy foolishly. so it was a year after that...
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tell me about that first meeting. >> we met in zambia where anc were meeting. my colleague who passed away a couple months ago was leading the delegation. i got there, i've gone all over the country saying free mandela, free south africa, never met nelson mandela. ipo in this line, suddenly, there he am. then mr. mandela i'd like you to meet the congressman from california. he does this double take and hit me with a moment i will never forget. we have heard much from you. you gave us hope. you kept us alive. he hugged me and i broke down and cried. >> congresswoman waters can you remember what he said? >> we had been working to break down apartheid, there when it was lifted anc was thought of as terrorist organization. i met others, on and on and on but i really wanted to meet nelson mandela, didn't get a chance to do it until he came to los angeles. as you know we organized another huge event to welcome him to this country. we filled up the coliseum, lit candles. all of the movie stars in hollywood showed up. all of the community showed up all over southern ca
tell me about that first meeting. >> we met in zambia where anc were meeting. my colleague who passed away a couple months ago was leading the delegation. i got there, i've gone all over the country saying free mandela, free south africa, never met nelson mandela. ipo in this line, suddenly, there he am. then mr. mandela i'd like you to meet the congressman from california. he does this double take and hit me with a moment i will never forget. we have heard much from you. you gave us...
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and what was interesting is, of course, there were many factions within the anc. some of them who thought, no, this is our time. and no, not reconciliation, but it's our time. and he would have none of pit. and started an amazing process in the country. bringing people and communities together. and united what i think many of us were worried was an impossible situation to unite a country peacefully behind his leadership. >> there are so many instances both during his presidency and afterwards where he brought people together where he was able to forge compromise. and we've heard a lot about president obama from him and from others about how he has been inspired by nelson mandela. you can't get a more vivid contrast than between the way nelson mandela operated and much of what we see in congress these days. is there anything you see at all that might suggest that this will give people a moment to pause to think and to say maybe there are lessons here to be learned. maybe there are ways. i mean, this is a man who forgave his persecutors, people who jailed him, peopl
and what was interesting is, of course, there were many factions within the anc. some of them who thought, no, this is our time. and no, not reconciliation, but it's our time. and he would have none of pit. and started an amazing process in the country. bringing people and communities together. and united what i think many of us were worried was an impossible situation to unite a country peacefully behind his leadership. >> there are so many instances both during his presidency and...
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the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid has been nonviolent organizing. they decided maybe that wasn't enough and nelson mandella was one of the leaders who went underground to help start it. they would try to sabotage the state. they banned the amc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandella was arrested for treason in 1961. in 1962, he was convicted of traveling illegally. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison, they put him on trial again, this time for sabotage. they convicted him and sentenced him to life on robin island. he began a new sentence that was a life sentence. and for the first 18 years of it, his cell had no bed, no plumbing of ne kind. he was permitted one visitor per year for 30 minutes. he became a symbol, worldwide, of the fight to stop apartheid. the south african government would not allow a picture of him to be taken in prison for decades. so the image was always him when he had been locked away. he served 27 years in prison. when fw clerk was elected president in 1989, it
the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid has been nonviolent organizing. they decided maybe that wasn't enough and nelson mandella was one of the leaders who went underground to help start it. they would try to sabotage the state. they banned the amc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandella was arrested for treason in 1961. in 1962, he was convicted of traveling illegally. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison,...
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he embodied the anc's approach, their principles. but he wasn't the only one. during my time in south africa, especially in the late '80s, when apartheid still existed, i met any number of south african, leaders, rank and pile, who had been through terrible injustice. fellow graduates of robin island, for example. people who had been tortured or under banning orders. and almost to a person i heard similar words from them that we heard from nelson mandela after he was released from prison. and in many ways my love for south africa and my inspiration from south africans came from those years when mandela was still in prison, when we didn't even know what he looked like because there was only one old picture. he was the leader. he was the "avatar" of the movement. but there's much, much more, and he was standing on a firm base, firm foundation. >> you know, it's been surprising, mark, you know, on the one handle, this effort to sanitize mandela that we're seeing now, you know, i'm trying to make this kind of play around king, and yet also -- and this is maybe even
he embodied the anc's approach, their principles. but he wasn't the only one. during my time in south africa, especially in the late '80s, when apartheid still existed, i met any number of south african, leaders, rank and pile, who had been through terrible injustice. fellow graduates of robin island, for example. people who had been tortured or under banning orders. and almost to a person i heard similar words from them that we heard from nelson mandela after he was released from prison. and...
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it is not that nelson mandela and the anc believed in violence. it is a people against whom the government was waging war took the action of self-defense. that's an internationally recognized strategy -- >> they took responsibility for violent acts. maybe we should put it that way. >> that's not what you said initially and it's really dangerous to keep perpetuating this articulation. nobody ever declared de clerk a terrorist. that's not what happened. what they did was to label the response to the violence. and that is dangerous because it's arguing and it's saying that mandela who by the way never renounced violence -- in the 27 years he was in jail, they said to him, renounce violence and we will free you and he said, i will not because that manifesto said, we have two choices, submit or die. and they said, we will never submit. >> we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, minimum wage workers in more than 100 cities protested and demanded a livable salary. but is raising pay the best way to really combat poverty in this country? the
it is not that nelson mandela and the anc believed in violence. it is a people against whom the government was waging war took the action of self-defense. that's an internationally recognized strategy -- >> they took responsibility for violent acts. maybe we should put it that way. >> that's not what you said initially and it's really dangerous to keep perpetuating this articulation. nobody ever declared de clerk a terrorist. that's not what happened. what they did was to label the...
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with him no longer as the spiritual leader of the anc. at least no longer on this earth. what is that going to do to politics going forward? >> when he walked away and said don't call me, i'll call you, he left politics. so for a number of years now, he has not been on the scene. i think to a certain extent, that's unfortunate. i think that this young democracy is having some missteps. >> it does feel that way. >> a few stumbles. it's difficult because mandela has not been there to way in. maybe at this moment when people are not on the streets, but contemplating what mandela stood for, they might come to a better moment than they are in currently. >> put into perspective, that was an amazing three or four-year period in history. when you look back, it's stunning and like how did we lose the momentum? we were almost there. >> it takes -- you did have prague and the berlin wall and the leaders who were able to have a vision. bush 41 had a vision in terms of german reunionification. there were leaders in different parts of the world. >> who seize the moment. >>a i new econo
with him no longer as the spiritual leader of the anc. at least no longer on this earth. what is that going to do to politics going forward? >> when he walked away and said don't call me, i'll call you, he left politics. so for a number of years now, he has not been on the scene. i think to a certain extent, that's unfortunate. i think that this young democracy is having some missteps. >> it does feel that way. >> a few stumbles. it's difficult because mandela has not been...
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the anc. you know, bishop tutu's crowd which is orchestrated by the soviet union. they said we've got to deal with these folks. we've got to meet with them. and i said baloney. >> and there were plenty of republican critics in 1990 when mandela was released from prison and addressed a joint session of congress. congressman tom delay said, quote, nelson mandela is no friend to liberty, democracy, or human rights. and congressman william danmeyer said nelson mandela's appearance before this body is a national disgrace. nelson mandela is no martin luther king. he is more like h. rap brown or willie horton. many republicans may embrace mandela today, but let's not rewrite history. in fact, some still attack him for accepting help from communist nation. but ignore the fact that for years america propped up the apartheid regime. i talked about that on "meet the press" yesterday. >> we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you
the anc. you know, bishop tutu's crowd which is orchestrated by the soviet union. they said we've got to deal with these folks. we've got to meet with them. and i said baloney. >> and there were plenty of republican critics in 1990 when mandela was released from prison and addressed a joint session of congress. congressman tom delay said, quote, nelson mandela is no friend to liberty, democracy, or human rights. and congressman william danmeyer said nelson mandela's appearance before this...
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some of the black opponents of anc fought on. one of the first stories i covered was in the anc township where it's zulu warriors from a hostile that marched in the dead of night and slaughtered 40 people women and children among them. so, you know, it was not a simple matter of de klerk deciding to negotiate and everything got easy. you know, white bitter enders assassinated the head of the communist party, one of the most promising young black leaders around that time. a bunch of kind of resistance types tried to storm one of the african so-called homelands. so there were people who tried to keep the fight going. but the balance just had had shift sod dramatically that, you know, de klerk was a realist. and they desperately needed a realist on the other side of the table. >> mr. delms, when i was talking about nelson mandela right before he was officially elected, he gave a lot of credit to the united states. i thought he was being very generous in saying our country was the most -- enemy of the world. do you think united state
some of the black opponents of anc fought on. one of the first stories i covered was in the anc township where it's zulu warriors from a hostile that marched in the dead of night and slaughtered 40 people women and children among them. so, you know, it was not a simple matter of de klerk deciding to negotiate and everything got easy. you know, white bitter enders assassinated the head of the communist party, one of the most promising young black leaders around that time. a bunch of kind of...
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you don't vote on a president, anc won, you vote on a party. we were in a hotel in a gathering with mr. mandela. i'll never forget, he said you cannot be afraid to grow and evolve. you have got to be willing to continue to grow, if you're going to be effective, and he grew. you've got to remember there were a lot of nationalist groups that said he had turned soft, sold out. there were a lot of different tensions there. he was able to withstand the hatred and opposition of the african, a whites and he was focused on democracy. >> he was incredibly tenacious in that he had the question of black nationalism versus the question of integration. eugene, you have a great piece and i'll read an exert of it today. we should remember not only the man who embraced his former enemies but also the man who refused to be bowed by those enemies, who remained militant despite 27 years of imprisonment who walked out of jail with his head held high and eyes toward the future. >> we think of nelson mandela and see that smile that's like sunshine. it just lights up
you don't vote on a president, anc won, you vote on a party. we were in a hotel in a gathering with mr. mandela. i'll never forget, he said you cannot be afraid to grow and evolve. you have got to be willing to continue to grow, if you're going to be effective, and he grew. you've got to remember there were a lot of nationalist groups that said he had turned soft, sold out. there were a lot of different tensions there. he was able to withstand the hatred and opposition of the african, a whites...
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a senior south african military intelligence person who said, quote, our strategy was to paint the anc as communist surrogates, the more we could present ourselves as anti-communists, the more people looked at us with respect. people you could have hardly believed cooperated with us politically when it came to the soviets. i mean, april, i was able to find that in like five minutes online. >> yeah. well, i want to put this in perspective. i talked to former president bill clinton yesterday. did an interview with him and he said, you know, with this issue about nelson mandela and his friendships and those who supported him, like gadhafi and ka castro, he said we don't look like ourselves view themselves. when we went on the tour, the historic africa tour with bill clinton in the second term and joburg, nelson mandela was asked a question about the friendships and nelson mandela himself said, look, if you don't like my friendship, something to this effect, you can go jump in the pool. >> yeah. >> nelson mandela himself said this. >> yep. >> and you have to remember, you know, that when p
a senior south african military intelligence person who said, quote, our strategy was to paint the anc as communist surrogates, the more we could present ourselves as anti-communists, the more people looked at us with respect. people you could have hardly believed cooperated with us politically when it came to the soviets. i mean, april, i was able to find that in like five minutes online. >> yeah. well, i want to put this in perspective. i talked to former president bill clinton...
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but today, i understand from many high ranking anc officials homeland security continues to treat some of them as needing a waiver to get into the united states, which is an embarrassment and what secretary rice said today, at the time, we can't allow president mandela, a man of his stature to be continue to be treated as a terrorist by the united states. we needed to do this and do it before he passed away. but also, we need to honor his memory today by also making sure that homeland security honors of legislation that secretary kerry and for that matter senator obama when they were both senators, helped to pass. so, yes, officially they are off the terror list but the way in which homeland security continues to interpret the laws, they are creating problems for the united states. >> that history is a reminder as we're in a moment of what we call international unity, the foreign policy legacy of everything related to the apartheid regime was divided in this country and many other nations. you look at say the early origins of investment campaign where a young barack obama as a student
but today, i understand from many high ranking anc officials homeland security continues to treat some of them as needing a waiver to get into the united states, which is an embarrassment and what secretary rice said today, at the time, we can't allow president mandela, a man of his stature to be continue to be treated as a terrorist by the united states. we needed to do this and do it before he passed away. but also, we need to honor his memory today by also making sure that homeland security...
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our history here as well that there was an expose about groups founded specifically to undermine the anc and to try to boost the image of south africa here in the west. so in terms of history when they -- you've got bill o'reilly saying he was a communist. >> last night. let me show that. about nelson mandela on fox. nelson mandela, i spent some time in south africa. he was a communist, this man. he was a communist. all right? >> don't you wonder where it was in south africa? it wasn't like he was hanging out in soweto, that bill o'reilly. i'm quite certain. and of course he doesn't understand the complexity of what the communist party in south africa was at the time. they had a short-term similar goal. >> well, let me show you what the head of the republican party rush limbaugh had to say. or let me let you hear it. >> nelson mandela has more in common or had more in common with clarence thomas than he does with barack obama. mandela had much more in common with clarence thomas. and a lot of conservatives. >> i'm not too good on limbaugh lingo, so could you interpret? >> remember this i
our history here as well that there was an expose about groups founded specifically to undermine the anc and to try to boost the image of south africa here in the west. so in terms of history when they -- you've got bill o'reilly saying he was a communist. >> last night. let me show that. about nelson mandela on fox. nelson mandela, i spent some time in south africa. he was a communist, this man. he was a communist. all right? >> don't you wonder where it was in south africa? it...
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sort of knee-jerk reaction against any sort of antiestablishmentarian action such as that taken by the anc, but if you're going to put nelson mandela in that terrorist category, you'd have to put george washington there for rebelling against the british in the name of freedom. i mean, that's -- >> gene, suppose there was a country where blacks held the whites in servitude, made them carry passbooks, wouldn't allow them to do anything. do you think somebody might be looking to their second amendment rights to try to change this? >> yeah. >> familiar. >> it sounds like it's a different standard, like this woman out in nevada -- "i might have to use my second amendment rights." suppose the president was from another tribal group or a different racial ethnic group and you had no rights. do you think you might resort to those second amendment? the idea of saying he resorted to violence is like saying george washington resorted to violence. >> exactly, exactly, exactly. that's the parallel that comes to mind. and look, you know, nelson mandela and his memory will live on aeons, centuries beyond
sort of knee-jerk reaction against any sort of antiestablishmentarian action such as that taken by the anc, but if you're going to put nelson mandela in that terrorist category, you'd have to put george washington there for rebelling against the british in the name of freedom. i mean, that's -- >> gene, suppose there was a country where blacks held the whites in servitude, made them carry passbooks, wouldn't allow them to do anything. do you think somebody might be looking to their second...
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he said i'm a loyal member of the anc. the world had changed and had to go away from the socialist philosophy. he changed radically in a very short amount of time. one of the things he always said to me, he was never high bound about haenging his mind. he said when circumstances change i changed my mind. what do you do. another great lesson for politicians. so he evolved so tremendously when he came out of prison. it was astonishing to watch. >> it is astonishing. incredible story. >> the transition between icon to being in power is one of those impossible things to do. >> it was much more difficult coming out of prison and being a practical politician than being in prison. mandela's greatest teacher said i haven't had a good night's sleep since i left prison because now have responsibility. >> in 1994 brian williams interviewed nelson mandela. he asked him about his predecessor f.w. de klerk. >> my relationship with mr. de klerk and he's one of those south africans that i hold in high regard. we have had differences where
he said i'm a loyal member of the anc. the world had changed and had to go away from the socialist philosophy. he changed radically in a very short amount of time. one of the things he always said to me, he was never high bound about haenging his mind. he said when circumstances change i changed my mind. what do you do. another great lesson for politicians. so he evolved so tremendously when he came out of prison. it was astonishing to watch. >> it is astonishing. incredible story....
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not that many foreign leaders spoke, but a tribute to, in the castro case, the fact cuba did support anc and mandela, supported him in jail when ronald reagan did not. how is that viewed behind the scenes? very carefully or something that causes anxiety attacks in the white house and create political problems also? >> given the array of challenges that the president faces on a daily basis, i think this is low down on the anxiety scale. the truth of the matter is, i heard your conversation with gene robinson, i think you guys were quite right. it would have been odd if he had done anything other than shake castro's hand. he's always been of a mind, the president has been of a mind these things are less important than the substantive discussions behind them. i wasn't surprised he offered the handshake and i wasn't surprised that got everybody in a frenzy. >> so we will relax over that. it was noted. dull not dully noted. thank you for your perspective. >> thank you. >> secretary kerry's testimony begun on the hill, his thinks on iran sanctions coming up next. ♪ [ male announcer ] everyon
not that many foreign leaders spoke, but a tribute to, in the castro case, the fact cuba did support anc and mandela, supported him in jail when ronald reagan did not. how is that viewed behind the scenes? very carefully or something that causes anxiety attacks in the white house and create political problems also? >> given the array of challenges that the president faces on a daily basis, i think this is low down on the anxiety scale. the truth of the matter is, i heard your conversation...
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and those decisions he made, those difficult decisions he made after sharpeville, when the anc had been a peaceful protest out of, you know, what the other leaders had said. it was a peaceful -- he made that decision to move to violence and to do that. then when he comes out of prison, the complete opposite of that. when everybody was thinking the country was on the tipping point of a blood bath, mandela paved the way for peace and forgiveness. >> right. do you feel like as an actor playing a role like that, that you achieved some emotional insight into the kind of dexterity that allowed mandela to move through these tremendously different phases, from enemy of the state to head of state? >> i mean, yes. i mean, obviously, you know, there's a certain amount of license that's given to the writer that actually has to do a lot of the construction of the sort of, the emotional journey that the audience go along on, and i certainly bring along that, help that journey along, but the truth is about this story, it's his true story, you know? our job was really editors, to figure out what part o
and those decisions he made, those difficult decisions he made after sharpeville, when the anc had been a peaceful protest out of, you know, what the other leaders had said. it was a peaceful -- he made that decision to move to violence and to do that. then when he comes out of prison, the complete opposite of that. when everybody was thinking the country was on the tipping point of a blood bath, mandela paved the way for peace and forgiveness. >> right. do you feel like as an actor...
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but like other giants of the anc -- [ cheers ] -- madiba disciplined his anner and chanld hinelled his desire fight in strategies and platforms so men and women could stand up for their god given dignity. moreover he accepted the consequences of his actions. knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i fought against white domination and i fought against black domination. i cherish the ideal of a democratic and free society. in which all persons live together in harmony and equal opportunities. it is an ideal which i hope to live for and to achieve, but if an ideal for which i'm prepared to die. [ cheers ] mandela taught us the power of action but also taught us the power of ideas. the importance of reason and arguments. the importance of to only study not only who you agree with but those who you don't degree with. he under stood ideas can't be contained by prison walls or extinguished by a sniper's bullet. he turned his trial into an indictment of apartheid because of his eloquence and passion but because of his training as an advocate. he used deca
but like other giants of the anc -- [ cheers ] -- madiba disciplined his anner and chanld hinelled his desire fight in strategies and platforms so men and women could stand up for their god given dignity. moreover he accepted the consequences of his actions. knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i fought against white domination and i fought against black domination. i cherish the ideal of a democratic and free society. in which all persons live together...